Meeting Summary from September 10, 2013

North Pointe Community Church/Birch Bay Ranch Association “Information Meeting”, held at North Pointe Community Church on Tuesday, September 10^th at 7:00 p.m.

We have compiled a summary for those who were unable to attend the Information Meeting at North Pointe Community Church on Tuesday, September 10^th. This summary includes just the facts of what happened at the meeting. We took detailed notes on the proceedings and wrote down every question and answer as best as we could, but some details had to be paraphrased in the interest of time. Anything in quotations, however, is verbatim. We are giving as honest an account of the proceedings as we can. If we misheard or misspelled any of your names, we apologize!

Bob Jones opened the meeting by stating the various board members’ connection to Birch Bay Ranch. He then explained that all questions should be written down, and that he and Don Smith would try their best to answer them. Then he invited Board Member Cliff Hastman to the front to open in prayer. Cliff spoke briefly about his connection to Birch Bay Ranch before praying for the evening’s proceedings.

After the prayer, Bob Jones explained how the Board of Directors serve both North Pointe Community Church and the Birch Bay Ranch Association. He said that as a Board, they realized a change would be good for both organizations, and that they should become separate, and that how that occurs is why we were all gathered at the meeting.

Bob then gave the floor to Don Smith, Treasurer on the Board of Directors. The following is Don’s statement, verbatim:

“It’s time for Birch Bay to stand apart from the church, to be in charge of its own affairs and its own destiny. So to that end, the church has been working with the directors of Birch Bay in order to keep the ministry functioning and keep it alive and well. As the pastor also mentioned, this point is still at the macro level, there is much work yet to be done and many details to be worked out. But this much I can tell you: the Board has decided first and foremost we’ll need to review and amend as necessary the current structure of Birch Bay Ranch – that’s the current Birch Bay Ranch Association structure and get it in line with the operation within Birch Bay Ranch structure. Now, when I talk about structure, I’m talking about bylaws, articles of incorporation, objectives and goals, charitable status, and so on. These are not small details, but hopefully we won’t have to rewrite but we can do it by amending the current structure. The second thing that the Board has determined is that there will be a new, stand alone, separate Birch Bay Ranch Board of Directors. They will not be associated with the church in any way and they will be responsible for control and operation of Birch Bay Ranch. The third thing that the Board has determined is that in order to assist the new Birch Bay Ranch Association, the church is prepared to make the assets of Birch Bay Ranch available to the new Association to help it get established on a sounder financial basis. The basis on which we would make the assets available is on a five-year lease for $1 a year, and that lease would contain a buyout option. Now, that in itself raises a whole raft of questions about the details, and as I said earlier, we haven’t addressed the details yet. We’ve only just come to the macro level of the lease on a five-year basis for $1 a year with an option to purchase. So keep that in mind when you start asking questions a little later, because we cannot tell you anything about the lease. We can’t tell you anything about the lease because we don’t know. We haven’t got it in place yet, but that is one of the details that needs to be worked out. So that’s the structure that we have decided at this point that will be in place going forward. Now, the question is, of course, are these changes going to be beneficial for the Ranch? And the Board is of the opinion that they are, in that the Ranch would now have complete autonomy – something that has been talked about in the past, now will be a reality. The proposed changes have now raised Birch Bay Ranch to everyone’s radar level, or at least back on a lot of people’s radar. And the grassroots group once again got involved. And the Birch Bay Ranch – and you folks here tonight are a good example of the interest that’s now been generated in Birch Bay Ranch. So, tonight and what we look forward to channeling that energy into the new Association and driving them to success. The third aspect of this – of why it’s beneficial is that for the next five years now, Birch Bay Ranch – the new Association is the only association where the church will be involved in terms of the current Birch Bay Ranch assets. There will not be any further discussion with anybody outside the church, other organizations or individuals. It will be just the Ranch. So, that is beneficial to the Ranch. So, Mr. Chairman, that is the extent of it.”

After Don’s statement, Bob and Don began reading the questions that members of the audience had passed forward. Again, we apologize if we misheard or misspelled your name. Where it reads “name unknown,” the name was either not read aloud by Bob or Don, or we were unable to hear the name.

Q: “Have you investigated whether you can legally change the use of the land, as I believe that a charitable purpose trust regarding the land may have been created when the land was donated. I believe that a trust lawyer should be consulted.” – Colleen Olson

A: “We have had legal council. It has not been from a trust lawyer per se, but we have had legal council, and there’s every reason to believe the Board is acting within its jurisdiction.” – Don Smith

(At this point, the author of the question spoke up to clarify. She stated that she believes the Board should have a trust lawyer look at it because most lawyers are not well versed in trust law. She stated that if that land was donated for the purpose of having a camp, unless the donor at that time and no other time advised that the land be used for any other purpose, a charitable purpose trust would have been created. Bob Jones cut in to remind the speaker of how the question process was to work and to suggest that they discuss her point another time.)

Q: “What amount is the buyout?” – Janice Parsons

A: “That number has not been determined yet.” “We don’t know.” – Don Smith

Q: “Will the church continue donating to Birch Bay Ranch Association with missions giving?” Jeff Korzan

A: “Our missions committee has always made good choices.” “If that’s something that is presented, it will be considered.” – Bob Jones

Q: “How will the new board members for the new BBR be selected?”

A: That will be up to the new Birch Bay Ranch Association, according to their new structure. – Don Smith

Q: “If BBR was given ownership by North Pointe, would BBR be subject to capital gains, since North Pointe is a charitable organization… [Don has trouble reading the person’s handwriting and trails off]” – Bev (last name unknown)

A: One would have to consult with the accountants that are responsible for the Ranch. I’m not a charity accountant, so I can’t give that advice. The organization will have to get advice from a tax expert. – Don Smith

Q: “Will the Ranch still be available for church use?” – (Name unknown) 

A: “I hope so.” – Bob Jones

Q: “Why would the land not be transferred along with the new Board in respect to ownership?” – Adam Pearse 

A: “This is an interesting question because it involves a structure that is a current Board of the BBR Association and it involves a new structure, which would be a new BBR Association and there’s a transition phase in between that requires a step that moves the assets out of the Association. I don’t want to spend the evening in details, it involves legalities, but I can suggest that it’s not just the simple matter of saying, ‘okay, set the new Board up and take the assets with you.’ There’s much more involved than that and that’s why at this point, the Board has deemed – we’ve chosen the correct path.” – Don Smith

(At this point the author of the question stood up and asked for clarity on the question. There was a long pause, and then Don moved on to read the next question.)

Q: “How much is the buyout? And if it is not raised, what is the plan for after five years?” – Jacki den Otter

A: “We’ll have to wait until we get there and see.” There are a number of options that could be available, but we’ll have to see at the end of five years. – Don Smith

Q: “Will the kids of North Pointe and other staff still be able to work as a staff as they previously have?” – (Name unknown)

A: We sure hope so, and we’re not sure why that wouldn’t occur in the future. – Bob Jones

Q: “What happens at the end of 5 years if the Ranch Board cannot afford to purchase the Ranch?” – Rachel Maskowitz

A: “We’ll have to deal with that in 5 years time.” – Don Smith

Q: “How is the Birch Bay Ranch Association formed or elected to form the Birch Bay Ranch Directors?” – Janice Barker

A: The bylaws of BBR Association state that the board of Central Pentecostal Tabernacle and the senior pastor make up the members of BBR Association. The directors are established through those bylaws. That is why the board of NPCC and BBR are the same. – Bob Jones

Q: “How can you as board members of two boards represent the interests of two organizations? There seems to be a huge conflict of interest.” – Mike Carson 

(Mike’s question was followed by applause.)

A: “In fact, there isn’t a conflict of interest. It is not uncommon for board members in various organizations whether in the corporate world or in other organizations like ours, where board members, the people of one organization will sit on several boards, and it is not deemed a conflict of interest. One needs to understand the, when a board is put in place, it’s put in place to manage the affairs of the organization which it represents, and to that end, that can be done with each organization with each board member. The board will make decisions at the time the decisions are made based on the facts that are available, based on the information that’s available, based on the due diligence that’s done, and then make the decision. Now, it’s obvious that any decision a board makes will never be popular with everybody. There will never be a decision – or seldom, let’s put it that way – extremely high odds that boards will make a decision, it’s not necessarily boards, let’s look at municipalities, look at government, look at any organization that’s put in place to make decisions, you will never get everybody satisfied with the decision of that entity. In this case, we’re referring to the Boards. So, the Board of Birch Bay Ranch can function as the Board of Birch Bay Ranch, make its decisions on behalf of Birch Bay Ranch, within its authority to do so and can do the same thing for the church, without the conflict of interest. And that is what’s happening in this instance.” – Don Smith

(At this point, a woman stood up and began to speak to the issue of fiduciary responsibility and conflicts of interest; however, Bob Jones told her to sit down, and reviewed the process of writing questions down and submitting them. Then a man stood up and spoke to the same thing. He described how the conflict of interest in this case was that the best interest for North Pointe Community Church and Birch Bay Ranch Association are not the same. Then he began to speak about fiduciary responsibility, and defined due diligence as having all board members sit down with both parties to get a full picture. At this point another man from the crowd interrupted and demanded to know why he was allowed to speak. Bob Jones then cut in on the microphone and stated he would shut down the meeting if people were to continue asking questions out loud without following the process. He then moved on to the next question.)

Q: “What use does the church have for the land?” - William Dewhurst 

A: “The Birch Bay Ranch Association has use for the land, and that’s what we want to see happen going forward, and that’s what we’re trying to do here tonight.” “Our use is to see Birch Bay Ranch use the land to the best of its ability.” – Bob Jones

Q: “Has a net assessment of Birch Bay Ranch’s current value been done?” Ryan Hastman

A: Yes it has. $1.54 [sic] million. – Bob Jones; “That’s land and buildings.” – Don Smith

Q: “What would Sam McCaughey say now?”

A: “Sam is the man who donated the land to the Ranch and he has since passed away.” “I can’t answer that. I don’t know.” – Don Smith

Q: “Will the new Birch Bay be a secular or a religious entity?” – Eric Hillier

A: We want to ensure that the ministry will continue, which is a ministry of evangelism trying to reach children, provide a retreat centre, and reach people for Christ. – Bob Jones

Q: “As a North Pointe/Central member, I believe we voted on the sale of the land manor [*edited September 15, 2013]. Is there any plan to bring this before the North Pointe membership?” – Anita Pearse

A: Yes. We don’t know when. – Don Smith

Q: “What would the buyout amount be after five years, and why is BBR buying back something that was given to Central for a kid’s camp?” – Gary and Cindy Bruton

A: “After five years, that would be subject to review and the Board of that day would, in conjunction with Birch Bay, try to arrive at a number that’s amenable to both parties. Why is BBR buying back something that was given to Central for a kid’s camp? Well, it’s really not a question of buying it back, it’s a question of transferring the assets back to the Ranch – oh, I’m sorry, not to the Ranch – to the church. [Here a woman states out loud that Birch Bay Ranch currently owns the assets.] The title is in Birch Bay Ranch Association, and that makes Birch Bay Ranch the ownership of the assets, that is correct. There’s no question about that. The fact of the matter is that the transfer of the land back to Birch Bay – or back to the church – is contingent on a number of things. Now, when you determine that the Ranch is buying it back, it can’t always be interpreted that way. You just heard the number of $1.45 million. That’s the current value. How much has been invested in the Ranch in the last 25 years? Well, we know currently what’s been invested. But, if the Ranch is sold for anything less than $1.45 million, that’s asset value that is given back to the Ranch. They’re not buying it back. The Ranch had value at the time it was transferred to the Ranch. The church did not receive value for that, or the equivalent value. So, it’s a question of semantics in many ways, and rather than get into the details here, this is something that needs to be worked out in the future.” – Don Smith

Q: “Why would Birch Bay Ranch have to buy back the land if they already own it?” – Greg (unsure of last name)

A: “I think I just answered that question.” – Don Smith

(Here, several people called out, “no,” “you just skirted around it,” “no you didn’t.” One man said, “It was a donation to start, make it a donation to finish.” Then another man said, “just walk away.” After that, several other people repeated, “just walk away.”)

“I said earlier that there’s a structure – structures that have to be dealt with. The new BBR Association and the current BBR Association – they have to be in place. The new BBR Association has to be in place before anything can happen, whether the land is given back, or the land is sold back, or the land is leased back, these have to be in place. So, there’s legalities we have to go through in that respect. The other thing is that the land – if you determine that the land was not paid for in the first place, how can one say it’s being bought back? Now, yes, there’s been capital expenditures spent on the Ranch. There’s been donations spent on the Ranch. But according to the Income Tax Act, when a person makes a donation to any charitable organization, they relinquish control of that money, and especially when taxable receipts are issued, the new organization that has control of that money, and what they do with that organization is up to the organization. So, the BBR Ranch, even if the Ranch bought the assets in the first place, even if that occurred, the current board of BBR could make the decision to transfer the assets back to the church at no cost, and be well within their jurisdiction to do it.” – Don Smith

(At this point, there was a lot of murmuring among the crowd. One woman asked out loud, “do you really think that’s in the best interest of the Birch Bay Ranch Association?” And man said, “that’s a good deal for North Pointe.” Bob Jones reminded everyone that if they have a difference of opinion, they have a difference of opinion. One woman said, “no opinions are being heard.” Bob moved on to the next question.)

Q: “Why are you not allowing anyone at the meeting to express their views? Asking a question is not open communication.” – Sylvia Hancock

A: The idea is to get clarity and be concise. There are a lot of people in the room, and if everyone were to give their own opinion, I don’t believe it would serve the process very well. This way it at least allows people to ask a question that’s concise and clear. – Bob Jones

Q: “Being that Birch Bay Ranch will be using a rented/leased facility, where would the incentive be for Birch Bay to upgrading or improving any structures, specifically if they do not own them once complete?” – Christian den Otter

A: “When a lease is signed with a buyout option, that fixes the purchase price for that land and that asset, whatever that asset is. So that any improvements the Ranch would make in that five years, assuming the Ranch would then purchase the property, they would be paying for the fixed price pre-arranged five years earlier and any improvements would just automatically go with the Ranch. So they wouldn’t be buying them back. On the other hand, any time assets or capital is spent on a leased property and the lease expires without a buyout, the improvements go to benefit the lessor. That’s a standard process, procedure and it’s applied to any lease, anywhere at any time.” – Don Smith

Q: “How can the current Board of Directors say that removing the asset from the books of BBR Association and putting them on the books of North Pointe, when the land title is in the name of the BBR Association, is in the best interests of the BBR Association?” – Deanna Barker

A: “One could also ask the question: by whose definition is best, and how is it that it’s NOT in the best interests of Birch Bay Ranch? And the reason I say that is because if you look at the operation of the Ranch, the Ranch has owned the assets for 25 years or more, and I have yet to see where owning the assets have had any material effect on the operation of the Ranch. So owning the assets, to this point in time, not having any material effect on the Ranch in days gone by, would seem to be somewhat superfluous at this point in time. And these are some of the factors that have been considered by the Board making the decision that was made.” – Don Smith

Q: “Who will determine the structure of the lease? Why only five years of the lease?” – Jill Burns

A: North Pointe Community Church will determine the structure of the lease and review it with new BBR Association. Why only five years? Because that was deemed to be a reasonable number. At the end of five years, it doesn’t say the lease will be renewed or the property will be sold out from under the Ranch. These are all things to be determined. – Don Smith

Q: “What are the lease options after five years?” – Greg Burns

A: That will be considered as time goes on. – Don Smith

Q: “As there are several decisions to be made here, how does the Board plan to keep North Pointe informed and considered?” – Greg Burns

A: Much the same as we’re doing now. The pastor made an announcement from the podium. We’ll use whatever means seem most effective. – Don Smith

Q: “Does the Board have a timeline for the restructuring of the Ranch?” – Greg Burns

A: At this point, we don’t have a date, per se. We originally thought maybe December 31^st, but we’re now thinking that’s probably too optimistic. We’d like to see it happen sooner rather than later. – Don Smith

Q: “I need clarification, please. Are you saying that the church cannot legally leave the land with Birch Bay Ranch without this five year process or something similar?” – (Name unknown)

A: No, I’m not saying that at all. There are two structures, one exists now and one doesn’t. Before anything can be done with the land, a new structure has to be in place. Then we can establish what might be done going forward with the land.  – Don Smith

Q: “If we cannot come up with an agreement, can the church just walk away and let the land go back to nature to eliminate all the controversy?” – Wayne (last name unknown)

A: Good question, Wayne. – Bob Jones

Q: “What percent of Birch Bay Ranch support is provided by North Pointe Community Church? Are the directors employees of the church?” – Melissa (last name unknown)

A: The first question: The church has been providing support for the ranch in the form of donations that come from the congregation. The church has no control over those designated offerings. I do not know what percentage that is, as it varies. The second form of support is through the church’s mission outreach, and that is determined every year by mission people. It’s $18,000. The church has also made operating funds available to the Ranch over the past few years. That number is $50,000. Are the directors employees of the church? Only one, and that’s Darryl. – Don Smith

Q: “How have all the stories from the Heart of Birch Bay Ranch affected the Board’s decisions?” – Janice Parsons

A: They affected the Board in the sense of an affirmation of how valuable the Ranch is and we understand that as a Board. One of the great things about this process is that it has allowed people to speak up about how much the Ranch means to them. Prior to this, maybe people were too silent. The stories that have come in from former campers, employees, people who got saved there or married there, and that’s a celebration of all the Ranch is. “The ability to see that there are two organization, a church and a ranch, that have the opportunity to move forward, to do actually what they want to do and what they’ve been talking about doing for years. To see stories like that continue on, that would be the hope.” – Bob Jones

(This answer was followed by applause.)

Q: “Will a new BBR board be put in place before negotiations regarding the lease and future sale are done?” – Jill Burns

A: Yes. – Don Smith

Q: “How much does BBR gain or lose in a year (dollar-wise)?” – Richard Simkowski

A: “As you look at the operating statements, there are a number of things that affect the gain/loss position. If you keep in mind what I’ve also just said in terms of the support the church has given over the last 2.5 years, and I’ll just speak to those numbers at the moment. The Ranch has had a small loss the last couple of years, under ten thousand dollars, but bear in mind, the church has contributed about 68+ donations from the congregation, so if those monies were pulled out from the Ranch, they may have a bit of a challenge, however that’s been discussed by the directors and has been addressed. That’s not a concern to the church board. The financial statements are available and one can look at them each year at the annual meeting. They are, of course, made available to anyone that’s in attendance.” – Don Smith

Q: “What are the options for the crown land that the ropes course is set upon after the five year lease agreement is up?” – Hunter Meckley

A: We hope that the same thing would continue. That the land would be available to the Ranch and they’d have the ropes course there. – Bob Jones

Q: “Did your market value assessment in any way discount the value of the Ranch assets based on those assets developed by fundraising and grants secured by the Association? If not, the market value assessment overstates the value you are asking for, as it does not give credit to the joint value created on the Ranch. You are, in fact, double-billing the Ranch.” – Doug Bowes

A: The assessment was done by an accredited appraisal firm who has been in business for many years and have done appraisals for a variety of organizations. Appraisal does not take into consideration the things Doug points out because it has no bearing on the reality of the value. There are three ways the appraiser looks at the property. What the asset will produce, and on the basis of replacement value and the sale of other properties of similar nature. We’re confident that the appraisal is fair and accurate. – Don Smith

(The author of this question then spoke up and explained that he understands how appraisals work, as he has managed land for over 20 years for the Province of Alberta. He repeated his questions, as he did not believe Don Smith answered his question. He also reiterated that they need to talk to a trust lawyer because they cannot secure full value based on that assessment, because some of those assets were jointly developed and jointly owned. Bob Jones responded by telling him he is making “assumptions on the future” and that the buyout price for Birch Bay Ranch to buy the land back from North Pointe Community Church has not yet been decided.)

Q: “I’m hearing about the macro view the Board is working on at this juncture. I have not heard any consideration in regard to long-range influence in the local area, province or other countries, mainly the direct influence BBR has had on campers, staff and development of a supportive mission. Is the issue dollars or peoples’ lives?” – Allan Forsyth

A: “I think you can find the answer to that question with the fact that we’re all sitting here with a common objective: keeping the Ranch ministry functioning and hopefully succeeding extremely well.” – Don Smith

Q: “Could the new BBR Board of Directors decide to sell the ranch and move to a new location at a future date?” – (First name unknown) Hillier

A: “The answer is yes, if they owned the assets.” – Don Smith

(At this point, various people said out loud, “They do own the assets.”)

Q: “How will the BBR Board be elected? Will North Pointe Community Church appoint the Association and its Directors? Please clarify.” – Janice Barker

A: That’s part of conversations between the church and the directors in establishing whatever new structures are put in place. The intent is to have the organizations separate and North Pointe would not have someone sitting on that board. – Bob Jones

Q: “Was the decision to 1) Sell this ranch or 2) Give the ranch to the new Association put to a vote for the congregation to decide?” – Dave Schroeder

A: “Yes.” – Don Smith

(As far as we at the Heart of Birch Bay Ranch knows, this issue was not brought to the congregation to vote on. If you are a member of North Pointe Community Church, and can enlighten us on this fact, please email us at birchbayranch@gmail.com.)

Q: “If the land is the property of Birch Bay Ranch and needs to be transferred to North Pointe, wouldn’t that transfer to North Pointe be the same legal hassle as to transfer it to the new Birch Bay Ranch Association?” – Anita Pearse

A: No. The old Association needs to be folded and the assets can’t be left in the book and must be transferred to the party that has control of those assets, which is North Pointe. – Don Smith

Q: “Why is the church keeping the land and not transferring it back to the Ranch Association where it belongs?” – Greg (Last name unknown)

A: “I’m not sure how many times we have to answer that question, but that’s the decision that the Board has made, and until that is changed for whatever reason, that’s why it has to be done.” – Don Smith

(At this point, the author of the question spoke up as asked for clarification, as he did not believe Don Smith had answered his question. He asked again: “WHY is North Pointe keeping the land?” Don Smith answered that he just explained. The author of the question clarifies, “No, you just said the Board made the decision. WHY?” Don answered that in the Board’s opinion the ranch doesn’t need the assets to succeed because it has never shown to benefit from owning the asset. At this point, a woman asked, “Where will the children sleep?” The author of the question complimented Don on his ability to talk, stated that he still hadn’t answered his question, and asked, “why?” again. Don responded, “You’re asking us to get into the details, now, of the decision.” In response, people cheered and applauded. The author of the question went on to explain that the land isn’t the church’s, which brought more applause. He went on to say that if this were to end up in court, the church will not win, because the Ranch owns the assets. Bob Jones then declared that they would be moving on to the next question.)

Q: “How have you confronted the conflict of interest involving the transfer of land from the Birch Bay Ranch Association to the church?” – Garrett Fraess

A: “I think we’ve addressed that. Our information is that there is no conflict of interest, nor is the Board acting outside its jurisdiction – either Board.” – Don Smith

(Bob Jones now explained that many similar questions are coming in, and many are based on a difference of opinion, but this meeting is not to resolve differences of opinions.)

Q: Has there been any consideration in setting up a separate board to represent the Ranch for the purpose of resolving this particular situation?” – Naomi (last name unknown)

A: “No, there has not been any consideration of that, because it has not been deemed necessary. We’re working with the directors of the Ranch to try to get this whole situation resolved. We feel that that’s the right way to go.” – Don Smith

Q: “Can the new BBR Association and the old BBR Association exist at the same time?” – Darcy (last name unknown)
A: “No.” – Don Smith

Q: “Why can’t we just keep it the way it was?” – David (last name unknown)

A: For the benefit of both organizations, we should change. “When we go through a change, the big thing is to understand the change and I guess to be able to go through the change.” – Bob Jones

Q: “The Alberta government grants cannot allow to be taken by the church as a religious organization. Has the North Pointe board been advised of their personal liability they extend to them by disregarding due diligence, fiduciary responsibility, exercising a reasonable standard of duty of care? – Samuel Teichgraber

A: “Yes.” – Don Smith

(At this point, the author of the question spoke up to clarify whether the individual board members know that they can be held personally liable for what goes forward from here. Bob Jones clarified that yes, they are aware.)

Q: “Does leasing the assets protect the new Ranch Association in the event that the new BBR is not profitable or goes bankrupt?” – Darren M. (last name unknown)

A: “No.” – Don Smith

Q: “Is not one of the reasons why the church is not transferring control of the land to a future BBR Board at this time to provide time for a new BBR to establish itself?” – Wes Irwin

A: “That is absolutely part of the rationale.” – Don Smith

Q: “Did not Sam McCaughey donate the land to Central? I remember him speaking in a Sunday night service about it. I would encourage all parties to keep their powder dry. We are Christians, we do not sue each other.” – Wes Wall

A: “Yes.” – Don Smith

Q: “How much time has been spent in prayer with the Board in reflection and the Board in conjunction with the directors of the ranch?” – Emily (last name unknown)

A: We started off with Cliff leading us in prayer. We’re here as people who are fallible but we try to do the best that we can and try to do right. The ability to pray together is something we rely on to do good ministry. John 15 talks about the fact that nothing eternal lasts unless we abide in him. – Bob Jones

Q: “I think the church kept running the Ranch so why should the kids from the kids lose out?” David (last name unknown – also his question was unclear as read by Don Smith, so we aren’t sure exactly what he was asking)

A: “That’s your opinion and we thank you for it.” – Don Smith

Q: “In the spirit of the donation from Sam McCaughey, has the board considered giving the ranch the land of BBR for the same amount of $1?” – David (last name unknown)

A: “I can suggest that the Board did talk about that as a church Board.” “The church board did not feel that would be good stewardship of church assets. And the time was not right, as pointed out earlier by Wes.” – Don Smith

Q: “Do you believe the buyout ends up protecting the assets of the ministry of BBR in case the Association is not able to continue with the ministry? I.e. so the assets are not sold off when/if the new Association goes bankrupt.” – Jeff Korzan

A: “That is correct.” – Don Smith

Q: “How will the Ranch/new BBR Association find a sustainable solution/support, in terms of another sponsor or church, if they have no assets or even owe 1.3 million dollars?” – Sylvia Hancock

A: No number is chosen yet in terms of what the buyout might be. You don’t need to own any assets to find sponsors. They will provide funding based on the ministry seeking the funding. The assets shouldn’t have any bearings at all. – Don Smith

Q: “Can you explain why or how Birch Bay Ranch will be better if it’s separate from the church?” – (Name unknown)

A: Vanguard College split from Central. God took care of them. They have a brand new facility and it has been a great opportunity for them. Lots of people didn’t give to them until they had their autonomy. The idea of Birch Bay Ranch having its own autonomy and be a ministry on its own has some very good merit. No other churches, or very few other churches, have given any other funding to Birch Bay Ranch. No longer does North Pointe own the ranch, it’s now something the community can own, which opens up a lot more opportunities. God will continue to bless Birch Bay Ranch. – Bob Jones

Q: “Won’t the Birch Bay financial supporters continue supporting the Ranch whether the Ranch changes hands? Why not take all this energy and passion and raise funds to purchase the Ranch?” – Kathy (last name unknown)

A: One of the benefits of this whole process has been to put Birch Bay back on everybody’s radar. It has raised a grassroots groundswell, and hopefully that groundswell can benefit Birch Bay Ranch. – Don Smith

Q: “How active has the board been in soliciting support from other churches and/or the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada?” – Ron (last name unknown)

A: We’ve been very active since March in asking other church, denominations and organizations, asking if they’d be willing to partner with Birch Bay Ranch. We’ve approached 11 different organizations. Each of those organizations have their own agendas and responsibilities, and all of them said, ‘we’re not interested at all.’ “The opportunity to try is what we’ve tried to do, and that’s why we’re at this juncture right now.” – Bob Jones; “That was part of our due diligence.” – Don Smith

Q: “This has been a good meeting. Can we have another one in which Darryl and Sharon answer questions in the same fashion?” – Rachel Maskowitz

A: “The board will take it into consideration.” – Don Smith

Q: “How much money does it take to make the Ranch viable?” – (Name unknown)

A: “I don’t know. I don’t mean to be funny in answering that question, but there is lots of needs at the Ranch, and there always has been and there always will be. The opportunity to find a larger base, a broader base of people, organizations, that would support the Ranch is the opportunity that we’re actually trying to create here.” – Bob Jones

After this question, Bob Jones drew the meeting to a close. Bob Jones and Don Smith both gave some closing remarks. They thanked everyone for coming, and talked about how moving forward, they would create a new structure for the Birch Bay Ranch Association and ensure that the ministry has the best shot at going forward. Bob Jones then closed the night in prayer.

Many individuals claimed that questions they had submitted had not been answered. Some of these questions included, “Will you allow two individuals representing Birch Bay Ranch to speak for just ten minutes?” (Laura Harder) and “Does this change mean that my Granddad’s inheritance money that was donated to BBR will now go into the North Pointe bank account?” (Amy Hancock) and “Are there any other board members in this room?” (Eric Barker)

While many individuals may have found this meeting frustrating, one thing is clear: Birch Bay Ranch has a strong, passionate group of supporters. It was a blessing to have so many people who care about the Ranch together in one room. We are so thankful for your support and look forward to building strong relationships with you, so that we can continue to do the good work of furthering God’s kingdom through Christian camping. We want to thank everyone who was able to attend the meeting, and we hope that this account of the evening’s proceedings is helpful for those who were unable to attend.