North Pointe Community Church/Birch Bay Ranch
Association “Information Meeting”, held at North Pointe Community Church on
Tuesday, September 10th at 7:00 p.m.
We have compiled a summary
for those who were unable to attend the Information Meeting at North Pointe
Community Church on Tuesday, September 10th. This summary includes
just the facts of what happened at the meeting. We took detailed notes on the
proceedings and wrote down every question and answer as best as we could, but
some details had to be paraphrased in the interest of time. Anything in
quotations, however, is verbatim. We are giving as honest an account of the
proceedings as we can. If we misheard or misspelled any of your names, we
apologize!
Bob Jones opened the meeting
by stating the various board members’ connection to Birch Bay Ranch. He then
explained that all questions should be written down, and that he and Don Smith would
try their best to answer them. Then he invited Board Member Cliff Hastman to
the front to open in prayer. Cliff spoke briefly about his connection to Birch
Bay Ranch before praying for the evening’s proceedings.
After the prayer, Bob Jones explained
how the Board of Directors serve both North Pointe Community Church and the
Birch Bay Ranch Association. He said that as a Board, they realized a change
would be good for both organizations, and that they should become separate, and
that how that occurs is why we were all gathered at the meeting.
Bob then gave the floor to
Don Smith, Treasurer on the Board of Directors. The following is Don’s
statement, verbatim:
“It’s time for Birch Bay to
stand apart from the church, to be in charge of its own affairs and its own
destiny. So to that end, the church has been working with the directors of Birch
Bay in order to keep the ministry functioning and keep it alive and well. As
the pastor also mentioned, this point is still at the macro level, there is
much work yet to be done and many details to be worked out. But this much I can
tell you: the Board has decided first and foremost we’ll need to review and
amend as necessary the current structure of Birch Bay Ranch – that’s the
current Birch Bay Ranch Association structure and get it in line with the operation
within Birch Bay Ranch structure. Now, when I talk about structure, I’m talking
about bylaws, articles of incorporation, objectives and goals, charitable
status, and so on. These are not small details, but hopefully we won’t have to
rewrite but we can do it by amending the current structure. The second thing
that the Board has determined is that there will be a new, stand alone,
separate Birch Bay Ranch Board of Directors. They will not be associated with
the church in any way and they will be responsible for control and operation of
Birch Bay Ranch. The third thing that the Board has determined is that in order
to assist the new Birch Bay Ranch Association, the church is prepared to make
the assets of Birch Bay Ranch available to the new Association to help it get
established on a sounder financial basis. The basis on which we would make the
assets available is on a five-year lease for $1 a year, and that lease would
contain a buyout option. Now, that in itself raises a whole raft of questions
about the details, and as I said earlier, we haven’t addressed the details yet.
We’ve only just come to the macro level of the lease on a five-year basis for
$1 a year with an option to purchase. So keep that in mind when you start
asking questions a little later, because we cannot tell you anything about the
lease. We can’t tell you anything about the lease because we don’t know. We
haven’t got it in place yet, but that is one of the details that needs to be
worked out. So that’s the structure that we have decided at this point that will
be in place going forward. Now, the question is, of course, are these changes going
to be beneficial for the Ranch? And the Board is of the opinion that they are,
in that the Ranch would now have complete autonomy – something that has been
talked about in the past, now will be a reality. The proposed changes have now
raised Birch Bay Ranch to everyone’s radar level, or at least back on a lot of
people’s radar. And the grassroots group once again got involved. And the Birch
Bay Ranch – and you folks here tonight are a good example of the interest
that’s now been generated in Birch Bay Ranch. So, tonight and what we look
forward to channeling that energy into the new Association and driving them to success.
The third aspect of this – of why it’s beneficial is that for the next five
years now, Birch Bay Ranch – the new Association is the only association where
the church will be involved in terms of the current Birch Bay Ranch assets.
There will not be any further discussion with anybody outside the church, other
organizations or individuals. It will be just the Ranch. So, that is beneficial
to the Ranch. So, Mr. Chairman, that is the extent of it.”
After Don’s statement, Bob
and Don began reading the questions that members of the audience had passed
forward. Again, we apologize if we misheard or misspelled your name. Where it
reads “name unknown,” the name was either not read aloud by Bob or Don, or we
were unable to hear the name.
Q: “Have you investigated
whether you can legally change the use of the land, as I believe that a
charitable purpose trust regarding the land may have been created when the land
was donated. I believe that a trust lawyer should be consulted.” – Colleen
Olson
A: “We have had legal council. It has not been from a trust lawyer per se, but
we have had legal council, and there’s every reason to believe the Board is
acting within its jurisdiction.” – Don Smith
(At this point, the author of
the question spoke up to clarify. She stated that she believes the Board should
have a trust lawyer look at it because most lawyers are not well versed in
trust law. She stated that if that land was donated for the purpose of having a
camp, unless the donor at that time and no other time advised that the land be
used for any other purpose, a charitable purpose trust would have been created.
Bob Jones cut in to remind the speaker of how the question process was to work
and to suggest that they discuss her point another time.)
Q: “What amount is the
buyout?” – Janice Parsons
A: “That number has not been determined yet.” “We don’t know.” – Don Smith
Q: “Will the church continue donating to Birch Bay Ranch Association with
missions giving?” Jeff Korzan
A: “Our missions committee has always made good choices.” “If that’s something
that is presented, it will be considered.” – Bob Jones
Q: “How will the new board
members for the new BBR be selected?”
A: That will be up to the new Birch Bay Ranch Association, according to their new
structure. – Don Smith
Q: “If BBR was given ownership by North Pointe, would BBR be subject to capital
gains, since North Pointe is a charitable organization… [Don has trouble
reading the person’s handwriting and trails off]” – Bev (last name unknown)
A: One would have to consult with the accountants that are responsible for the
Ranch. I’m not a charity accountant, so I can’t give that advice. The
organization will have to get advice from a tax expert. – Don Smith
Q: “Will the Ranch still be
available for church use?” – (Name unknown)
A: “I hope so.” – Bob Jones
Q: “Why would the land not be
transferred along with the new Board in respect to ownership?” – Adam Pearse
A: “This is an interesting question because it involves a structure that is a
current Board of the BBR Association and it involves a new structure, which
would be a new BBR Association and there’s a transition phase in between that
requires a step that moves the assets out of the Association. I don’t want to
spend the evening in details, it involves legalities, but I can suggest that
it’s not just the simple matter of saying, ‘okay, set the new Board up and take
the assets with you.’ There’s much more involved than that and that’s why at
this point, the Board has deemed – we’ve chosen the correct path.” – Don Smith
(At this point the author of
the question stood up and asked for clarity on the question. There was a long
pause, and then Don moved on to read the next question.)
Q: “How much is the buyout?
And if it is not raised, what is the plan for after five years?” – Jacki den
Otter
A: “We’ll have to wait until we get there and see.” There are a number of
options that could be available, but we’ll have to see at the end of five
years. – Don Smith
Q: “Will the kids of North
Pointe and other staff still be able to work as a staff as they previously
have?” – (Name unknown)
A: We sure hope so, and we’re not sure why that wouldn’t occur in the future. –
Bob Jones
Q: “What happens at the end
of 5 years if the Ranch Board cannot afford to purchase the Ranch?” – Rachel
Maskowitz
A: “We’ll have to deal with that in 5 years time.” – Don Smith
Q: “How is the Birch Bay
Ranch Association formed or elected to form the Birch Bay Ranch Directors?” –
Janice Barker
A: The bylaws of BBR Association state that the board of Central Pentecostal
Tabernacle and the senior pastor make up the members of BBR Association. The
directors are established through those bylaws. That is why the board of NPCC
and BBR are the same. – Bob Jones
Q: “How can you as board
members of two boards represent the interests of two organizations? There seems
to be a huge conflict of interest.” – Mike Carson
(Mike’s question was followed by applause.)
A: “In fact, there isn’t a conflict of interest. It is not uncommon for board
members in various organizations whether in the corporate world or in other
organizations like ours, where board members, the people of one organization
will sit on several boards, and it is not deemed a conflict of interest. One
needs to understand the, when a board is put in place, it’s put in place to
manage the affairs of the organization which it represents, and to that end,
that can be done with each organization with each board member. The board will
make decisions at the time the decisions are made based on the facts that are
available, based on the information that’s available, based on the due
diligence that’s done, and then make the decision. Now, it’s obvious that any
decision a board makes will never be popular with everybody. There will never
be a decision – or seldom, let’s put it that way – extremely high odds that
boards will make a decision, it’s not necessarily boards, let’s look at
municipalities, look at government, look at any organization that’s put in
place to make decisions, you will never get everybody satisfied with the
decision of that entity. In this case, we’re referring to the Boards. So, the
Board of Birch Bay Ranch can function as the Board of Birch Bay Ranch, make its
decisions on behalf of Birch Bay Ranch, within its authority to do so and can
do the same thing for the church, without the conflict of interest. And that is
what’s happening in this instance.” – Don Smith
(At this point, a woman stood
up and began to speak to the issue of fiduciary responsibility and conflicts of
interest; however, Bob Jones told her to sit down, and reviewed the process of
writing questions down and submitting them. Then a man stood up and spoke to
the same thing. He described how the conflict of interest in this case was that
the best interest for North Pointe Community Church and Birch Bay Ranch
Association are not the same. Then he began to speak about fiduciary
responsibility, and defined due diligence as having all board members sit down
with both parties to get a full picture. At this point another man from the
crowd interrupted and demanded to know why he was allowed to speak. Bob Jones
then cut in on the microphone and stated he would shut down the meeting if
people were to continue asking questions out loud without following the process.
He then moved on to the next question.)
Q: “What use does the church
have for the land?” - William Dewhurst
A: “The Birch Bay Ranch Association has use for the land, and that’s what we
want to see happen going forward, and that’s what we’re trying to do here
tonight.” “Our use is to see Birch Bay Ranch use the land to the best of its
ability.” – Bob Jones
Q: “Has a net assessment of
Birch Bay Ranch’s current value been done?” Ryan Hastman
A: Yes it has. $1.54 [sic] million. – Bob Jones; “That’s land and buildings.” – Don
Smith
Q: “What would Sam McCaughey say now?”
A: “Sam is the man who donated the land to the Ranch and he has since passed
away.” “I can’t answer that. I don’t know.” – Don Smith
Q: “Will the new Birch Bay be a secular or a religious entity?” – Eric Hillier
A: We want to ensure that the ministry will continue, which is a ministry of
evangelism trying to reach children, provide a retreat centre, and reach people
for Christ. – Bob Jones
Q: “As a North Pointe/Central
member, I believe we voted on the sale of the land manor [*edited September 15, 2013]. Is there any plan to bring
this before the North Pointe membership?” – Anita Pearse
A: Yes. We don’t know when. – Don Smith
Q: “What would the buyout
amount be after five years, and why is BBR buying back something that was given
to Central for a kid’s camp?” – Gary and Cindy Bruton
A: “After five years, that would be subject to review and the Board of that day
would, in conjunction with Birch Bay, try to arrive at a number that’s amenable
to both parties. Why is BBR buying back something that was given to Central for
a kid’s camp? Well, it’s really not a question of buying it back, it’s a
question of transferring the assets back to the Ranch – oh, I’m sorry, not to
the Ranch – to the church. [Here a woman states out loud that Birch Bay Ranch
currently owns the assets.] The title is in Birch Bay Ranch Association, and
that makes Birch Bay Ranch the ownership of the assets, that is correct.
There’s no question about that. The fact of the matter is that the transfer of
the land back to Birch Bay – or back to the church – is contingent on a number
of things. Now, when you determine that the Ranch is buying it back, it can’t
always be interpreted that way. You just heard the number of $1.45 million.
That’s the current value. How much has been invested in the Ranch in the last
25 years? Well, we know currently what’s been invested. But, if the Ranch is
sold for anything less than $1.45 million, that’s asset value that is given
back to the Ranch. They’re not buying it back. The Ranch had value at the time
it was transferred to the Ranch. The church did not receive value for that, or
the equivalent value. So, it’s a question of semantics in many ways, and rather
than get into the details here, this is something that needs to be worked out
in the future.” – Don Smith
Q: “Why would Birch Bay Ranch
have to buy back the land if they already own it?” – Greg (unsure of last name)
A: “I think I just answered that question.” – Don Smith
(Here, several people called
out, “no,” “you just skirted around it,” “no you didn’t.” One man said, “It was
a donation to start, make it a donation to finish.” Then another man said,
“just walk away.” After that, several other people repeated, “just walk away.”)
“I said earlier that there’s
a structure – structures that have to be dealt with. The new BBR Association
and the current BBR Association – they have to be in place. The new BBR
Association has to be in place before anything can happen, whether the land is
given back, or the land is sold back, or the land is leased back, these have to
be in place. So, there’s legalities we have to go through in that respect. The
other thing is that the land – if you determine that the land was not paid for
in the first place, how can one say it’s being bought back? Now, yes, there’s
been capital expenditures spent on the Ranch. There’s been donations spent on
the Ranch. But according to the Income Tax Act, when a person makes a donation
to any charitable organization, they relinquish control of that money, and
especially when taxable receipts are issued, the new organization that has
control of that money, and what they do with that organization is up to the
organization. So, the BBR Ranch, even if the Ranch bought the assets in the
first place, even if that occurred, the current board of BBR could make the
decision to transfer the assets back to the church at no cost, and be well
within their jurisdiction to do it.” – Don Smith
(At this point, there was a
lot of murmuring among the crowd. One woman asked out loud, “do you really
think that’s in the best interest of the Birch Bay Ranch Association?” And man
said, “that’s a good deal for North Pointe.” Bob Jones reminded everyone that
if they have a difference of opinion, they have a difference of opinion. One
woman said, “no opinions are being heard.” Bob moved on to the next question.)
Q: “Why are you not allowing
anyone at the meeting to express their views? Asking a question is not open
communication.” – Sylvia Hancock
A: The idea is to get clarity and be concise. There are a lot of people in the
room, and if everyone were to give their own opinion, I don’t believe it would
serve the process very well. This way it at least allows people to ask a
question that’s concise and clear. – Bob Jones
Q: “Being that Birch Bay
Ranch will be using a rented/leased facility, where would the incentive be for
Birch Bay to upgrading or improving any structures, specifically if they do not
own them once complete?” – Christian den Otter
A: “When a lease is signed with a buyout option, that fixes the purchase price
for that land and that asset, whatever that asset is. So that any improvements
the Ranch would make in that five years, assuming the Ranch would then purchase
the property, they would be paying for the fixed price pre-arranged five years
earlier and any improvements would just automatically go with the Ranch. So
they wouldn’t be buying them back. On the other hand, any time assets or
capital is spent on a leased property and the lease expires without a buyout,
the improvements go to benefit the lessor. That’s a standard process, procedure
and it’s applied to any lease, anywhere at any time.” – Don Smith
Q: “How can the current Board
of Directors say that removing the asset from the books of BBR Association and
putting them on the books of North Pointe, when the land title is in the name
of the BBR Association, is in the best interests of the BBR Association?” –
Deanna Barker
A: “One could also ask the question: by whose definition is best, and how is it
that it’s NOT in the best interests of Birch Bay Ranch? And the reason I say
that is because if you look at the operation of the Ranch, the Ranch has owned
the assets for 25 years or more, and I have yet to see where owning the assets
have had any material effect on the operation of the Ranch. So owning the
assets, to this point in time, not having any material effect on the Ranch in
days gone by, would seem to be somewhat superfluous at this point in time. And
these are some of the factors that have been considered by the Board making the
decision that was made.” – Don Smith
Q: “Who will determine the structure
of the lease? Why only five years of the lease?” – Jill Burns
A: North Pointe Community Church will determine the structure of the lease and
review it with new BBR Association. Why only five years? Because that was
deemed to be a reasonable number. At the end of five years, it doesn’t say the
lease will be renewed or the property will be sold out from under the Ranch.
These are all things to be determined. – Don Smith
Q: “What are the lease
options after five years?” – Greg Burns
A: That will be considered as time goes on. – Don Smith
Q: “As there are several
decisions to be made here, how does the Board plan to keep North Pointe
informed and considered?” – Greg Burns
A: Much the same as we’re doing now. The pastor made an announcement from the
podium. We’ll use whatever means seem most effective. – Don Smith
Q: “Does the Board have a timeline for the restructuring of the Ranch?” – Greg
Burns
A: At this point, we don’t have a date, per se. We originally thought maybe
December 31st, but we’re now thinking that’s probably too
optimistic. We’d like to see it happen sooner rather than later. – Don Smith
Q: “I need clarification,
please. Are you saying that the church cannot legally leave the land with Birch
Bay Ranch without this five year process or something similar?” – (Name
unknown)
A: No, I’m not saying that at all. There are two structures, one exists now and
one doesn’t. Before anything can be done with the land, a new structure has to
be in place. Then we can establish what might be done going forward with the
land. – Don Smith
Q: “If we cannot come up with
an agreement, can the church just walk away and let the land go back to nature
to eliminate all the controversy?” – Wayne (last name unknown)
A: Good question, Wayne. – Bob Jones
Q: “What percent of Birch Bay
Ranch support is provided by North Pointe Community Church? Are the directors
employees of the church?” – Melissa (last name unknown)
A: The first question: The church has been providing support for the ranch in
the form of donations that come from the congregation. The church has no
control over those designated offerings. I do not know what percentage that is,
as it varies. The second form of support is through the church’s mission
outreach, and that is determined every year by mission people. It’s $18,000.
The church has also made operating funds available to the Ranch over the past
few years. That number is $50,000. Are the directors employees of the church?
Only one, and that’s Darryl. – Don Smith
Q: “How have all the stories from the Heart of Birch Bay Ranch affected the
Board’s decisions?” – Janice Parsons
A: They affected the Board in the sense of an affirmation of how valuable the
Ranch is and we understand that as a Board. One of the great things about this
process is that it has allowed people to speak up about how much the Ranch
means to them. Prior to this, maybe people were too silent. The stories that
have come in from former campers, employees, people who got saved there or
married there, and that’s a celebration of all the Ranch is. “The ability to
see that there are two organization, a church and a ranch, that have the
opportunity to move forward, to do actually what they want to do and what
they’ve been talking about doing for years. To see stories like that continue
on, that would be the hope.” – Bob Jones
(This answer was followed by
applause.)
Q: “Will a new BBR board be put
in place before negotiations regarding the lease and future sale are done?” –
Jill Burns
A: Yes. – Don Smith
Q: “How much does BBR gain or
lose in a year (dollar-wise)?” – Richard Simkowski
A: “As you look at the operating statements, there are a number of things that
affect the gain/loss position. If you keep in mind what I’ve also just said in
terms of the support the church has given over the last 2.5 years, and I’ll
just speak to those numbers at the moment. The Ranch has had a small loss the
last couple of years, under ten thousand dollars, but bear in mind, the church
has contributed about 68+ donations from the congregation, so if those monies
were pulled out from the Ranch, they may have a bit of a challenge, however
that’s been discussed by the directors and has been addressed. That’s not a
concern to the church board. The financial statements are available and one can
look at them each year at the annual meeting. They are, of course, made
available to anyone that’s in attendance.” – Don Smith
Q: “What are the options for
the crown land that the ropes course is set upon after the five year lease agreement
is up?” – Hunter Meckley
A: We hope that the same thing would continue. That the land would be available
to the Ranch and they’d have the ropes course there. – Bob Jones
Q: “Did your market value
assessment in any way discount the value of the Ranch assets based on those
assets developed by fundraising and grants secured by the Association? If not,
the market value assessment overstates the value you are asking for, as it does
not give credit to the joint value created on the Ranch. You are, in fact,
double-billing the Ranch.” – Doug Bowes
A: The assessment was done by an accredited appraisal firm who has been in
business for many years and have done appraisals for a variety of
organizations. Appraisal does not take into consideration the things Doug
points out because it has no bearing on the reality of the value. There are
three ways the appraiser looks at the property. What the asset will produce,
and on the basis of replacement value and the sale of other properties of
similar nature. We’re confident that the appraisal is fair and accurate. – Don
Smith
(The author of this question then spoke up and explained that he understands
how appraisals work, as he has managed land for over 20 years for the Province
of Alberta. He repeated his questions, as he did not believe Don Smith answered
his question. He also reiterated that they need to talk to a trust lawyer
because they cannot secure full value based on that assessment, because some of
those assets were jointly developed and jointly owned. Bob Jones responded by
telling him he is making “assumptions on the future” and that the buyout price
for Birch Bay Ranch to buy the land back from North Pointe Community Church has
not yet been decided.)
Q: “I’m hearing about the macro view the Board is working on at this juncture.
I have not heard any consideration in regard to long-range influence in the
local area, province or other countries, mainly the direct influence BBR has
had on campers, staff and development of a supportive mission. Is the issue
dollars or peoples’ lives?” – Allan Forsyth
A: “I think you can find the answer to that question with the fact that we’re
all sitting here with a common objective: keeping the Ranch ministry functioning
and hopefully succeeding extremely well.” – Don Smith
Q: “Could the new BBR Board
of Directors decide to sell the ranch and move to a new location at a future
date?” – (First name unknown) Hillier
A: “The answer is yes, if they owned the assets.” – Don Smith
(At this point, various
people said out loud, “They do own the assets.”)
Q: “How will the BBR Board be elected? Will North Pointe Community Church appoint
the Association and its Directors? Please clarify.” – Janice Barker
A: That’s part of conversations between the church and the directors in
establishing whatever new structures are put in place. The intent is to have
the organizations separate and North Pointe would not have someone sitting on
that board. – Bob Jones
Q: “Was the decision to 1)
Sell this ranch or 2) Give the ranch to the new Association put to a vote for
the congregation to decide?” – Dave Schroeder
A: “Yes.” – Don Smith
(As far as we at the Heart of
Birch Bay Ranch knows, this issue was not brought to the congregation to vote
on. If you are a member of North Pointe Community Church, and can enlighten us
on this fact, please email us at birchbayranch@gmail.com.)
Q: “If the land is the
property of Birch Bay Ranch and needs to be transferred to North Pointe,
wouldn’t that transfer to North Pointe be the same legal hassle as to transfer
it to the new Birch Bay Ranch Association?” – Anita Pearse
A: No. The old Association needs to be folded and the assets can’t be left in
the book and must be transferred to the party that has control of those assets,
which is North Pointe. – Don Smith
Q: “Why is the church keeping
the land and not transferring it back to the Ranch Association where it
belongs?” – Greg (Last name unknown)
A: “I’m not sure how many times we have to answer that question, but that’s the
decision that the Board has made, and until that is changed for whatever
reason, that’s why it has to be done.” – Don Smith
(At this point, the author of
the question spoke up as asked for clarification, as he did not believe Don
Smith had answered his question. He asked again: “WHY is North Pointe keeping
the land?” Don Smith answered that he just explained. The author of the
question clarifies, “No, you just said the Board made the decision. WHY?” Don answered
that in the Board’s opinion the ranch doesn’t need the assets to succeed
because it has never shown to benefit from owning the asset. At this point, a
woman asked, “Where will the children sleep?” The author of the question complimented
Don on his ability to talk, stated that he still hadn’t answered his question,
and asked, “why?” again. Don responded, “You’re asking us to get into the
details, now, of the decision.” In response, people cheered and applauded. The
author of the question went on to explain that the land isn’t the church’s,
which brought more applause. He went on to say that if this were to end up in
court, the church will not win, because the Ranch owns the assets. Bob Jones
then declared that they would be moving on to the next question.)
Q: “How have you confronted the conflict of interest involving the transfer of
land from the Birch Bay Ranch Association to the church?” – Garrett Fraess
A: “I think we’ve addressed that. Our information is that there is no conflict
of interest, nor is the Board acting outside its jurisdiction – either Board.”
– Don Smith
(Bob Jones now explained that many similar questions are coming in, and many
are based on a difference of opinion, but this meeting is not to resolve
differences of opinions.)
Q: Has there been any
consideration in setting up a separate board to represent the Ranch for the
purpose of resolving this particular situation?” – Naomi (last name unknown)
A: “No, there has not been any consideration of that, because it has not been
deemed necessary. We’re working with the directors of the Ranch to try to get
this whole situation resolved. We feel that that’s the right way to go.” – Don
Smith
Q: “Can the new BBR
Association and the old BBR Association exist at the same time?” – Darcy (last
name unknown)
A: “No.” – Don Smith
Q: “Why can’t we just keep it the way it was?” – David (last name unknown)
A: For the benefit of both organizations, we should change. “When we go through
a change, the big thing is to understand the change and I guess to be able to
go through the change.” – Bob Jones
Q: “The Alberta government grants cannot allow to be taken by the church as a
religious organization. Has the North Pointe board been advised of their
personal liability they extend to them by disregarding due diligence, fiduciary
responsibility, exercising a reasonable standard of duty of care? – Samuel
Teichgraber
A: “Yes.” – Don Smith
(At this point, the author of the question spoke up to clarify whether the
individual board members know that they can be held personally liable for what
goes forward from here. Bob Jones clarified that yes, they are aware.)
Q: “Does leasing the assets protect the new Ranch Association in the event that
the new BBR is not profitable or goes bankrupt?” – Darren M. (last name
unknown)
A: “No.” – Don Smith
Q: “Is not one of the reasons why the church is not transferring control of the
land to a future BBR Board at this time to provide time for a new BBR to
establish itself?” – Wes Irwin
A: “That is absolutely part of the rationale.” – Don Smith
Q: “Did not Sam McCaughey donate the land to Central? I remember him speaking
in a Sunday night service about it. I would encourage all parties to keep their
powder dry. We are Christians, we do not sue each other.” – Wes Wall
A: “Yes.” – Don Smith
Q: “How much time has been
spent in prayer with the Board in reflection and the Board in conjunction with
the directors of the ranch?” – Emily (last name unknown)
A: We started off with Cliff leading us in prayer. We’re here as people who are
fallible but we try to do the best that we can and try to do right. The ability
to pray together is something we rely on to do good ministry. John 15 talks
about the fact that nothing eternal lasts unless we abide in him. – Bob Jones
Q: “I think the church kept running the Ranch so why should the kids from the
kids lose out?” David (last name unknown – also his question was unclear as
read by Don Smith, so we aren’t sure exactly what he was asking)
A: “That’s your opinion and we thank you for it.” – Don Smith
Q: “In the spirit of the
donation from Sam McCaughey, has the board considered giving the ranch the land
of BBR for the same amount of $1?” – David (last name unknown)
A: “I can suggest that the Board did talk about that as a church Board.” “The
church board did not feel that would be good stewardship of church assets. And
the time was not right, as pointed out earlier by Wes.” – Don Smith
Q: “Do you believe the buyout
ends up protecting the assets of the ministry of BBR in case the Association is
not able to continue with the ministry? I.e. so the assets are not sold off
when/if the new Association goes bankrupt.” – Jeff Korzan
A: “That is correct.” – Don Smith
Q: “How will the Ranch/new
BBR Association find a sustainable solution/support, in terms of another
sponsor or church, if they have no assets or even owe 1.3 million dollars?” –
Sylvia Hancock
A: No number is chosen yet in terms of what the buyout might be. You don’t need
to own any assets to find sponsors. They will provide funding based on the
ministry seeking the funding. The assets shouldn’t have any bearings at all. –
Don Smith
Q: “Can you explain why or how Birch Bay Ranch will be better if it’s separate
from the church?” – (Name unknown)
A: Vanguard College split from Central. God took care of them. They have a
brand new facility and it has been a great opportunity for them. Lots of people
didn’t give to them until they had their autonomy. The idea of Birch Bay Ranch
having its own autonomy and be a ministry on its own has some very good merit. No
other churches, or very few other churches, have given any other funding to
Birch Bay Ranch. No longer does North Pointe own the ranch, it’s now something
the community can own, which opens up a lot more opportunities. God will
continue to bless Birch Bay Ranch. – Bob Jones
Q: “Won’t the Birch Bay
financial supporters continue supporting the Ranch whether the Ranch changes hands?
Why not take all this energy and passion and raise funds to purchase the
Ranch?” – Kathy (last name unknown)
A: One of the benefits of this whole process has been to put Birch Bay back on
everybody’s radar. It has raised a grassroots groundswell, and hopefully that
groundswell can benefit Birch Bay Ranch. – Don Smith
Q: “How active has the board been in soliciting support from other churches and/or
the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada?” – Ron (last name unknown)
A: We’ve been very active since March in asking other church, denominations and
organizations, asking if they’d be willing to partner with Birch Bay Ranch.
We’ve approached 11 different organizations. Each of those organizations have
their own agendas and responsibilities, and all of them said, ‘we’re not
interested at all.’ “The opportunity to try is what we’ve tried to do, and
that’s why we’re at this juncture right now.” – Bob Jones; “That was part of
our due diligence.” – Don Smith
Q: “This has been a good
meeting. Can we have another one in which Darryl and Sharon answer questions in
the same fashion?” – Rachel Maskowitz
A: “The board will take it into consideration.” – Don Smith
Q: “How much money does it take to make the Ranch viable?” – (Name unknown)
A: “I don’t know. I don’t mean to be funny in answering that question, but
there is lots of needs at the Ranch, and there always has been and there always
will be. The opportunity to find a larger base, a broader base of people,
organizations, that would support the Ranch is the opportunity that we’re
actually trying to create here.” – Bob Jones
After this question, Bob
Jones drew the meeting to a close. Bob Jones and Don Smith both gave some
closing remarks. They thanked everyone for coming, and talked about how moving
forward, they would create a new structure for the Birch Bay Ranch Association
and ensure that the ministry has the best shot at going forward. Bob Jones then
closed the night in prayer.
Many individuals claimed that
questions they had submitted had not been answered. Some of these questions
included, “Will you allow two individuals representing Birch Bay Ranch to speak
for just ten minutes?” (Laura Harder) and “Does this change mean that my
Granddad’s inheritance money that was donated to BBR will now go into the North
Pointe bank account?” (Amy Hancock) and “Are there any other board members in
this room?” (Eric Barker)
While many individuals may
have found this meeting frustrating, one thing is clear: Birch Bay Ranch has a
strong, passionate group of supporters. It was a blessing to have so many
people who care about the Ranch together in one room. We are so thankful for
your support and look forward to building strong relationships with you, so
that we can continue to do the good work of furthering God’s kingdom through Christian
camping. We want to thank everyone who was able to attend the meeting, and we
hope that this account of the evening’s proceedings is helpful for those who
were unable to attend.
